I have been hearing a lot about the debate between Jon Stewart of the Daily Show and Jim Cramer of Mad Money, but I missed the actual show.
Now it’s posted on the Internet (of course!) and it’s pretty interesting.
You can view the debate here:
Cramer vs. Stewart
After you’ve watched the head-to-head debate, share with me and other traders what you think of it by posting your comments below.
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Cramer is trying to give retail stock advice while being bred as a hedge fund manger. It doesn’t make sense cause his experience is in managing HUGE accounts and he tries hard to give advice to rookies that got romanced by an Etrade commercial and have 5K in their account of money that they probably cant realistically afford to lose.
A large account can afford to go LONG in a Bear market, a small account cannot. Cramer never recommends shorting, so if CNBC cared one bit about their viewers, they would let him go and replace him with an experienced retail trader, that trades for a living FROM HOME.
i watched the show live. and to be frank, i did not expect cramer to be so agreeable. but , in retrospect, what else could he do?. he reminded me of the church cases, i once had to represent a witness in one of those cases. and i realized, that unlike insurance companies which will fight a shameful fight, in order not to pay. the church will not. what else can they do?. during the 2000’s cramer was in my view credible. during the frenzy, when everyone was convinced, this time things were different. he said “take some off the table”. if i had listened to him i would be a much richer person today.
but since then, he’s taken on a new persona. which puts him in his present position. when you become the church, (in cramer we trust), and your friends, the high priests, come to your program, lie and you then don’t investigate what they’re doing. the perception will be that you’ve given your imprimatour, to their actions. even though you have not. when confronted with this. what else can you do.
The sheep will always be led to the shearing block. Anyone who does not do their own due diligence and relies solely on ANY opinion asks for what they receive. In finance, due to the nature of MONEY being involved, and the human frailty of GREED, trust is not a luxury that can be prudently exercised. The powers that truly run the world of finance could care less about network commentators and individual Pension programs.Jim Cramer does his job for the network, not the investor/trader.It should be obvious whose bottom line is more important.These type programs in my opinion need to classified as Entertainment and viewed as such. It is “free” commentary after all…not a $2000 a year advisory service. As in all things you get what you pay for. Bottom line: do your own analysis and take responsibility for your own trades/investments.
Unfortunately, I am not able to access this video since I live in Canada. However, I used to subscribe to Jim Cramer’s nightly e-mail listings and do not agree with his system. He seems to buy stocks that are beat into a palp and not care if they keep going lower. I agree with
Mark who says Cramer talks like a hedge fund manager with very deep pockets. In the real world of small traders like us, not prioritizing money managment and only buying long is suicidal. As I recall he used to short the market in the past and made a lot of money from it before, but somehow he scorns the practice now
Two points to take away from this entire spectacle:
1. Anyone who chooses to act on Cramer’s advice without performing their due-diligence first and researching his past as a hedge fund super star is in for a world of hurt. Doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to notice the conflict of interest brewing there, especially considering that a fair amount of hedge fund profits are realized at the expense of novice retail trader mistakes (depends on the fund of course). At the very least examine his track record of previous recommendations – the rap sheet is dismal at best. Lots and lots of predictions which were the exact opposite of what actually materialized at market. Sure, Mad Money is exciting and appealing with all the gimmicks and antics Cramer does on his show. That’s the point! It lures people in because the show’s first priority is entertainment and financial advice is only secondary; or maybe fourth or twentieth priority or whatever. Jim Cramer is a dude on TV – he is NOT your personal financial adviser so don’t treat him as such!
2. I’m afraid this entire Stewart vs. Cramer debacle is in reality just a distraction from what is really going on with the financial markets and in particular distracting from the retrenchment of institutional positions post-crash. The little guy has been wiped out. I’m not talking about the type of people who are most likely to read this blog since most likely this blog is frequented by professional and up-and-coming traders. I’m talking about the 9-5’ers who have had this idea of long term investment pounded into their head repeatedly by the media talking heads including Jim and others like him. They spend years and years trying to distract the average Joe with a 401K’s attention away from the enormous bubble being inflated behind their backs, and then after they trigger the bursting of the bubble they use the media to foment fear and panic firstly to encourage a public sell off of their ‘investments’ sometimes at a loss and then to add confusion serving to discourage people from trying to make sense of the market correction thereby allowing the institutional investors to take advantage of the rebound. Despite the fact that Jon Stewart is attempting to be the altruistic and noble whistle blower pointing out the despicable debauchery of the financial services industry (‘financial service’, isn’t that an oxymoron?) and the complicit media which enables such manipulation, he is only making his point after the fact. He is really just playing the blame game while the big money is getting ready to inflate the next bubble.
We should be looking forward to creating a future economy built on the fundamentals instead of the ruthless pursuit of maximum profit. That’s what us traders are there for – attempting to extract maximum profit while absorbing the associated risk; as opposed to going to the casino with Mr. and Mrs. Dick and Jane Mainstreet’s retirement fund. Sure the implications of this suggestion signal that the trader’s job may become more difficult in the future, but since when has trading been easy?
Just a few points bouncing around in my noggin I thought I should put out there. Let me know if any of this is confusing as it came out somewhat as a stream of consciousness, and I will do my best to clarify.
Cramer is a clown. How anyone with any degree of sophistication could watch that man is beyond me. Stewart did a masterful job of slicing and dicing Cramer. I loved the remark Stewart made when Cramer said there was a market for what he does and Stewart replied that there is a market for hookers and crack cocaine too.
Wow, I should have just hit refresh. Rob captured the essence of my points almost to the T with much fewer words. Kudos, Rob.
Cramer’s heart is in the right place, but he can’t be responsible for all the ill’s of Wall street. Stewart and most Americans have no clue of the complexities of what caused the melt down; they are just looking for someone to hang – just point them out to me and let me have at; it its pure vengeance at work. Its an extreme case of Monday morning quarterbacking. John Stewart can see it so clearly now on Monday morning. But let me ask you, how could Cramer (or for that matter any other investigative reporter or group of reporters or agency or group of agencies realistically with unlimited resources) have seen: 1. the credit rating agencies biases were increasingly compromised to the extent iit would matter, 2. the irrefutable fact prior to 2007 that housing prices had never gone down in the last 100 years and that most banks and mortgage lenders depended on this assumption to now support every sub-prime and high leveraged mortgage securitized instrument (the SEC, the FED, the Treasury, the Congress and even John Stewart all knew this!, 3. the Democrats and Republicans and two administrations debated for years the risks inherent to Fannie and Freddie and danced around the issues as we now know while Rome was burning, and 4. many more like issues. The answer is everyone saw or knew it but literally no one saw the danger. Suppose someone had? Who would they go to? What would they say? Who would listen? What action should an omnipotent force take? No one likes the answer – absolutely nothing!! This horse is dead! We will be picking over this carcass for decades. The real and better question to ask is what about the next horse that ain’t dead yet? Who is perceptive enough to see it? I’ll tell you this, it doesn’t look anything like the last one. There has been much criticism of the economic stimulus. Is this where the next horse is? Has someone already flagged it or are they really just trying to kill our golden goose? Cramer, my friend, good luck on an impossible task. Stewart, my friend, enjoy your seat and keep up your comedic dream land. We all need a place to go where reality doesn’t exist, where we can relax a bit and where we don’t have to worry about that smack on the head.
I have watched Cramer occasionally over the past few years and, while initially, it seemed like it might be a useful tool in which to get stock picking advice and market information, I soon came to realize that this is more of an entertainment vehicle than an investment advisory service. He provides just enough information about particular stocks to lure the viewer in, along with his crazy antics to keep things entertaining, but his mantra, “There’s always a bull market somewhere and I’m here to find it for you” is clearly not very relevant in the present bear market. Guess ‘shtick’ sells advertising, and critical and balanced information of minimal entertainment value is relegated to PBS ( a la the old “Wall Street Week” with Louis Ruykeyser?). Cramer knows that his viewer demographic is probably not savvy enough to short stocks or even buy puts, so he keeps pounding away at long picks, only to have them lose value in the current bear market. He occasionally does list his track record, but how unbiased this is, is unclear and it’s not done on every show so the occasional viewer may miss the fact that he’s wrong quite a lot of the time. Clearly there’s a bias going on there, and I’m sure Mr. Cramer has a hand in deciding how often he wants his stock picking record shown. I think he’s been successful in staying on the air because of his entertainment value, but in the current economy, his type of ‘shtick’ is an anachronism (he used to be broadcast during the prime time hour, but I see that he’s been relegated to ‘not ready for primetime’ time slots, so I guess that would suggest his ratings aren’t what they used to be?). If CNBC truly cared about the financial well-being of it’s viewers, it would present a much more balanced, in-depth, and less flamboyant review of the markets, including the short side, as well as the long.
Cramer or anyone else who dares criticize the current washington messiah will suffer such repercussions. obama has plenty of pitbulls in the media to defend him. i’m not defending Cramer because as mentioned in prior posts…it’s free advice.
Jim Cramer is not the bad guy. Greed is and has always been the #1 motivating factor where money is involved. And that breeds corruption. If an investor or trader doesn’t understand this and allows someone else to manage his or her account, they shouldn’t be in this game and they deserve the spoils of their decision making. It’s called being accountable. And with the government reaching all time high corruption levels, misplaced trust here will only result in one’s financial suicide. Robin Hood Obama will see to that.
Hello Berry, I hope you are well..
Jim Cramer, is trying to save his career.He is trying to do damage control. as well as few other talking heads who are on their way out. CNBC and other networks must repair its reputation therefore many of those taking heads will be gone in short order. Watch the format change very soon.
Berry, these people have a responsibility to Main street and the community. These people have placed themselves between Wall Street and Main street giving their advice. they should do the due diligence necessary from all sides to get the truth to the public. That is their job.. They are to rapped up in what they are getting out of it, knowing full well we are getting taken and abused. It is the FOX watching the chicken coop. and it is not funny. Many people depend on these talking heads to inform them and it is just a drunken, drug induced party to them..
I know a few people who have done research for his show. they are mad at him for being so Egotistic and ungrateful to them and this anger did not just start. Taking all the credit and not even recognizing this team of very smart people.
Good for them for being called out.
This mess WILL change now. WANT TO BET..
while I believe all of the cnbc talk host(especilly the bimbos should be faded),Cramer may occasionally be used even though he may not want to be. But one should ask who put Stewart up to the role of business talk show critic? I would think if he believes himself to be a jornalistic critic, he could drag virtually every main stream media news reporter(HACK and HACKETTE) who checked their objectivity and integrity at the door and looked the other way in order to coronate the PRINCE of PORK CHICAGO STYLE even tho he never ran anything in his life.
This is the expected Broken Bubble rhetoric that is just wrong on so many levels:
1) Putting Cramer on the Hot Seat for having made bad calls is just as entertaining and fallable as the notion of listening to his “long only” nonsense in the first place.
2) John Daily probably had no qualms enriching himself on long stock and finance calls that enlarged his accounts on the way up. Noboday wanted to stop the money train – not the housing speculators, not Greenspan, not Congress, not the rating agencies, not the banks or the Wall Street traders of SIVs, CDOs, MBACs and certainly not anyone with a “Buy and Hold 401K”. Having issues with Cramer’s format “after the fact” is hippocritical, petty and annoying.
3) John’s portending to be an apostle of wisdom after the Credit Bubble has burst and lancing out at Financial Network shows is a complete populist masquarade and ignores the focus on personal accountability for ones actions and deeds.
4) Cramer’s whining and apologist musings made me think of the “2nd Raters” in Ayn Rand’s novels. My God — where is the clear headed John Galt to speak up against this nonsense? Are we to be forever exposed to the ignorant polemics of these half wits who spew financial nonsense and jaded hippocritical quips of the same nonsense? It’s like watching an Organ Grinder Chimp sparring with a Clown.
As such — neither are right.
M.
I learned long ago not to take financial advice, if you buy on smith’s rumor, you’re obligated to sell on smith’s rumour, and it just doesn’t work out that way. Everyone is responsible for their own decisions and the blame game gets very tiring after a while. Having said that, there are many talking heads on CNBC that I literally can’t stomach any longer. Melissa what’s her name, and Larry Kudlow come immediately to mind. They’re just too transparent, displaying their ignorance on a daily basis. Their agenda is to impress their Wall St. buddies that they’ve got their back, afraid they won’t be considered part of the “in” crowd. Kudlow was spouting his bullish nonsense to the bitter end. The guy with the horn rimmed glasses on the noon time show makes me sick too, always spouting off with a pompous diatribe and groveling at the feet of his wall st. friends. The network’s audience IS Wall St. and clearly not the average joe. The content is heavily editorialized and I basically don’t watch anymore except to hear when the Fed speaks or to hear a Senate committee. Cramer was part of the problem for years. Anyone who listens to him needs their head examined. Here is a guy who consistently recommends averaging down in a decling market, not good advice for the average retail investor, if anyone for that matter. I think he did eventually have an epiphany of sorts, and in his own way means well, but by and large the network has gone to hell in a hand basket. It’s all heavily editorialized propaganda, and they are constantly shilling for Wall St. But like I said, I don’t watch any longer and I won’t be losing any sleep when they wind up on the unemployment line with the rest of the unfortunate. Bottom line though……think for yourself people.
It’s all in the charts. It’s clear that Mr. Stewart, as well as most Americans, are not clear on the fact that no market goes one way. Investment firms remain bullish- what else do they know? Why blame Jim Kramer or anyone else?
Ronald Regan should have warned people to be traders versus investors when he started the 401k program. Of course, most 401k rules prohibit wise trading and we are handcuffed indirectly to criminals.
Robert Prechter was known as Mr.doom and gloom until the crash happened. In December of 2007, my 401k was moved over to money market. Many times, I watched work cohorts gathered around monitors watching rallies. Never did I hear any talk about puts or shorts during slides.
If the country wants investors again, we need to have something to invest in; such as companies that produce quality American products. We can no longer survive as the world’s retail outlet. Right now, we are surviving on a bomb based economy, and if someone gets more bombs- look out!
I agree with Bob.
Neither of them produce anything – not even entertainment. Poor attempt to get higher ratings. Most likely staged and scripted.
Barry,
In your words, “The market can do anything at any time” because of the core that drives the market – people. Greed and fear are the reality, and even though regulators are appointed to help prevent this kind economic issue, the next generation will find a way around it, and history will repeat itself over and over again – due to people.
Cramer and Stewart are just the noise…I expect more will follow, and then we’ll buy books (maybe from Stewart) on how to manage our way out of the 2nd great depression even though this is not yet a socially acceptable word.
The videos are viewable in Canada on the “The Comedy Network”.
I agree with Mark Sanchez’s characterization: “It’s like watching an Organ Grinder Chimp sparring with a Clown.” I’m assuming the Clown is Cramer.
I am fully in favor of what Jon Stewart has done to Cramer. Jon deserves a lot of credit for bringing this matter up of sleazy analysts who take on both sides of opinions and call themselves gurus causing immense harm to the public. I think mutual fund companies need to be taken to task also. They keep touting that you will ‘average out’ if you keep contributing weekly of which of course they nicely keep their profits every week whether the poor investor makes money or loses. Why the heck they cannot e-mail the investors when they think the market is going to tank ? After all that is why we pay them a fee. Why else do we pay them a fee ? We could ourselves do a better job weekly if we had the time. It is because we do not have the time that we trust them and the only answer they give us is ‘well what can we do ?’. Well we could have said that also without paying them a dime !!
I watch the Daily Show but not Mad Money and I’m not a trader – I always go long and I currently have a 2 year time horizon on all of my investments (plus plenty of dry powder to take advantage of the valuations in the market today).
I think the comments here are very interesting. I am particularly surprised by the comments that state you should take short positions if you have a small account and long positions if you have a large account. My philosophy is to go long with everything and not invest money that I will need short term or, in a regular market, to keep that money in safe investments like an investment grade bond.
I give Cramer a lot of credit for the 2 clips that I have seen of his performance:
1. Chastising Bernanke for not acting fast enough before the meltdown and playing the Cassandra role of telling people who didn’t want to listen that life was going to change.
2. Telling people on the Today Show to get their money out of the stock market if they would need it in the next few years. (Advice that I did not take as I was – and still am – hunting for value.)
My key take-away from the reaction to the economy is that naive investors will blame anyone when they take losses. I think the hedge fund industry is a great example. Hedge funds are still a very good tool for diversification and their total return strategy will cause them to act acyclically and provide a good hedge against a down-turn in your traditional investments. I completely disagree that they need more regulation. I would like to see their size limited and bank holding companies, insurance companies, or any other company that is vital to the economy should not be able to own them. Hedge funds blow up. It’s a necessary part of their process. Hedge fund failures should be contained but a large percentage of hedge funds will fail and that is an unavoidable fact of that industry. If you try to make hedge funds less volatile you will destroy the industry.
Cramer corroborates the cosmic truth that no one knows the future. When is someone going to blame the Moodys of the world who gave triple A ratings to the subprime mortgage instruments and therefore paved the way for all the institutions to sell CDS (puts) which IS the problem
I have to admit that Jon Stewart had it right. Cramer is only in it for himself. He is a great self promoter with little regard to the best interest of his audience. Sorry to say.
Paul
Burt – well said.
This past Fall, I finally learned just how important it is that we be responsible for our own financial destiny and well being. You cannot, you should not, depend on anyone to have your financial interest in mind when you don’t fully understand their own interests and motivations.
I “discovered” Jim Cramer and Mad Money in November when I decided that if I really wanted to protect my retirement and discretionary funds, I needed to take the time to learn about investing. His enthusiasm stimulated me and gave me the confidence that I could do this thing.
While he has been a financial “gamer” in his past, I think no one should mistake Jim Cramer as a financial journalist; he is clearly an entertainer trying to educate and encourage the masses on how investing is exciting, albeit hard work. Frankly, I think he may actually have some remorse for his past behavior as a hedge fund manager.
Since I have been watching his show and reading commentaries on TheStreet.com, he has taught me to be even more suspicious of the financial markets, even with his overall bullish bent; I don’t think you can be such a clown, especially on national TV, without having an optimistic view on life – that alone makes me more cautious about blindly accepting his “advice”.
I have read his books and think he is very sincere in wanting to share his knowledge and experience to make us better investors. Oddly, maybe because of how some of his more recent recommendations have tanked more than expected, I have also been motivated to now learn more about technical analysis and trading, as well.
I think Jon Stewart makes excellent points and clearly expresses the feelings of many of us, whose 401k’s have lost much value, we now wonder if we will ever be able to retire. The nuances of our financial markets, and the power and greed of corporate executives, are bigger challenges than any one person can fully understand not to mention fight, alone. In spite of the obvious CNBC producer hype of “In Cramer We Trust” the Mad Money show is not intended to protect us from crooks, nor is it intended to be financial journalism. Could Cramer have warned us earlier about how obscene leverage weakens financial instruments and how these are like a “house of cards?†Sure, but he is a victim of his own optimism and belief that educated analysis of reported (and audited) financials will lead to more successful long-term (12-24 month) investment selections. That’s it; that’s what he is all about. His stock recommendations come with substantial caveats; and he continually emphasizes how important doing your homework is.
That said, I agree that CNBC, as a financial services network could have done much more, perhaps been more detailed and louder in their reporting. Would we have heeded their advice? There is plenty of blame to go around; from our collective greed and the psychological difficulty of betting against the trend, to the educated regulators and the politicians in whom we trust to serve, protect, and represent our interests. Hind-sight is indeed 20-20, but “The fault, dear Brutus…â€
Stewart got Cramer by the ‘shorts’ all right. But that’s just it the show is a topical ‘entertainment’ show. Presumably Cramer’s show should also have been seen as much the same – after-all would you bank with your local bank if the manager behaved like Jim Cramer?! All the sensible caveats apply; ‘buyer beware’, no such thing as money for nothing, do your own due diligence etc. etc. In the end, you and you alone are truly responsible for your own money and how it is traded and invested. Most importantly is the time you invest in yourself to understand why and where you put your money to work for you and not ‘the other guy’…
Jon Stewart’s comedy leaves me about as cold as Jim Cramer’s stock picking, but Stewart won this round.It’s pretty clear that Cramer was ripe (and deserving, to some degree) for the picking. It’s somewhat entertaining to watch a guy with a photography memory, and also interesting to hear from someone who has worked in the tranches. He has some good ideas from time to time. But Cramer’s ignorance of technical analysis (by his own admission), and his pursuance for doubling down on losers will get you killed in this market and the ‘smart’ guy should’ve known better. Cramer’s diarrhea of the mouth has gotten him in trouble and it’s probably not the first time and won’t be the last.
the first thing i learned when i started trading futures was “don’t listen to the news, just watch the charts”. That has kept me out of a world of trouble, thats why i don’t pay attention to any of the “gurus”. Jim Cramer or Fast Money.
I thought Mad Money was strickly mindless entertainment; I can’t imagine anyone taking Cramer’s advice seriously.
Barry,
Your original question, asked in the title of your e-mail, was “Jim Cramer in the Hot Seat – Is it Fair?” The answer, in a word is no! Cramer is in the hot seat for having the cajones to attack the Obama administration’s giant pork laden spending and tax increase bills. To no ones surprise, the Stewart attack had zero to do with the original Cramer broadcasts that started this. We are seeing early in this new administration that if you don’t drink the Koolaid, you will be attacked, maybe by the “messiah” himself, maybe by his spokesmen, or Begala, or Carville. But you most certainly will be attacked by the lapdog left wing media. Your past efforts at anything will be examined and aired nationally (ask Joe the Plumber).
I will let all of you decide if you liked Stewart’s approach, but atleast admit that his attack had nothing to do with the broadcasts that got Cramer national attention. It was the classic attack of a “community organizer.” Marginalize the offending person by attacking him/her about anything, divert attention from the original points.
(Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals)…RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.
Personally, I don’t like Cramer’s show, or Stewart’s. I only watched because you asked. lol. We all could probably find better ways to spend our time…
It was probably just staged to make a big controversy so each’s ratings would go up by attracting more viewers. I think both are a couple of clowns, typical of the low class mush that is TV today. It’s not worth any more thought. I’ll stick to advice from real pros like Dr. Barry.
Its sad that as a nation we have become naieve enough to
believe that a television personality is a reliable source
for financial advice. And it is absurd to put any blame on
him because his advice is flawed. What has happened to self reliance and taking blame for ones own failures and mistakes.
Instead of attacking a television personality, who makes his living as an entertainer. How about we direct that anger toward our education system that doesn’t teach its students the principles of money management?
Perhaps if our nation’s students were taught reasonable risk to reward ratios, we would not have been allured into rediculous returns on our investments.
As we’ve learned from the recent financial breakdown, we cannot blindly trust ANYONE with our hard earned money but ourselves.
I have watched the Jim Cramer many times and several stocks have sparked my interest, like CAT. But, I always do practice my due diligence on his recommendations and most seem risky for the average investor short term, at least in this market. He should emphasize the short interest, ect. on his stocks, but that would probably not be entertaining enough. Anyway, he will have to emphasize more technical analysis and more disclosure on his portfolio after all this, BUT! the public forgets all, in a very short time, so I really believe he will be the “same ol – same ol.
Long term in the stock market is 3 minutes. 3 candlesticks How a company’s earnings and growth have nothing to do with it. They ride a trend until the dumb money sees it and then the moneymakers cut there legs off with naked puts.
Many, many thanks, dr Burns!
Val from Romania